【挽诗】Felicia Hemans的“The Lost Pleiad”

keatslover

另外austin 可是在诺桑绝罗寺中对当时的浪漫主义可是大加讽刺哦

keatslover

这个是在网上找的：
Jane Austin (1775-1817), first important woman novelist, was born and lived all her life in a little town, far away from hustle and bustle of the big cities. Her primary interest is people and the exact presentation of human situation. Her characters are really living creatures with their faults and virtues mixed as in real life. In Sence and Sensibility, Pride and Prejudice, Mansfield Park, Emma, Northanger Abbey and Persuasion, Austin attempts no more than to show a small corner of English society. She was not so popular in her own time, because her novels lacked romantic and sentimental features which readers appreciated and needed. Instead, her novels always teach a moral and, something veru unusual for her age of romantism, she used the ironic tinge.

methos

原帖由 keatslover 于 2007-11-13 12:27 AM 发表
这个是在网上找的：
Jane Austin (1775-1817), first important woman novelist, was born and lived all her life in a little town, far away from hustle and bustle of the big cities. Her primary interest i ...

上班前先问一句：
不是Jane Austen吗？我又孤陋寡闻了？

p.s.在维基条目的categories里奥斯丁也属于"English Romantic Fiction Writers"

[ 本帖最后由 methos 于 2007-11-13 06:42 AM 编辑 ]

keatslover

网上找到应该原文有些打错的，比如后面的那个veru，那个romantic 是表示the romantic period.

keatslover

Jane Austen
1775-1817

Jane Austen, whose name itself has become a totem of civility, manners, and etiquette, received little public recognition in her lifetime. The four novels which were published while she lived -- Sense and Sensibility (1811); Pride and Prejudice (1813); Mansfield Park (1814); and Emma (1816) -- appeared without her name on the title page; usually their authorship was attributed only to "a lady."

Austen was born at Steventon, her father's vicarage in Hampshire, into a well-off family. There she wrote her first three published novels. (The first was actually Northanger Abbey, not published until 1818, a year after her death). Between 1801 and 1809, the Austens moved frequently. In 1801, the family moved from the Steventon vicarage to Bath, between the Cotswold Hills to the north and the Mendips to the south. Bath played a prominent part in Austen's last novel, Persuasion (published jointly with Northanger Abbey in 1818). After six years, the family relocated to Southampton; two years later, in 1809, Austen went with her family to Chawton, near Winchester, where she lived for the rest of her life.

Austen wrote of the genteel society she knew in these places, of what we would now call the upper middle class -- those with some land and some money, generally without titles, and always with the pressure of navigating the treacherous waters of social codes and expectations. The world of Austen's novel of manners was a limited one; Mansfield Park is unique among the six novels in that it spends an extended episode in the urban home of a poor family.

Although Austen is now often revered for her handling of romantic love, her social conservatism was actually at odds with the Romantic sensibility. With her advocacy of reason over fancy and moderation over excess, Austen wrote of marriages and social relations based on rational companionship rather than on the feverish emotionality espoused by the Romanticism that was dominant when she wrote. Her deft irony and subtle but firm morality refined the genre of the novel, which was really still in its early childhood at the turn of the 19th century. Austen, the great narrator of courtship and marriage, never married, and she died among her family in Winchester at the age of 42.


这是网上找的另外一段介绍 注意romantic的另外一个意思。

methos

有点跑题了，只是读你列出的诗的时候读到另外一个星球的glorious race ,首先感觉不到科学的影响，其次感觉不到诗人想象另外一个星球存在着一个glorious race和本星球的科学关系何在，考古的进步？天文的进步？

昨天没看见这个贴，现在回复。
你仔细看看拜伦的《该隐》序，再比较一下Felicia Hemans和以及雪莱《解放的普罗米修斯》中的诗句——其实很相似的。居维叶对古生物化石的研究激发了诗人对未知生物的想象，在诗作中自信的表达出来。即使济慈在“On first looking into Chapman’s Homer”中也会用天文学家发现新行星来描述自己的激动心情： “Then felt I like some watcher of the skies / When a new planet swims into his ken”——浪漫派的时期也是科学迅速发展的时期——柯勒律治也会去听化学课——不管他们如何看待科学，科学都影响着他们的作品。

如果你按照日期算的话我当然无话可说，不过既然你比较喜欢拜伦 我想问问你对拜伦评价pope的eloisa to abelard 说如果你要找浪漫主义，这就是浪漫主义怎么看？

拜伦崇拜波普的讽刺诗这是举世皆知的，虽然拜伦和波普的讽刺作品在风格和意识形态上都大相径庭。不过说到Eloisa to Abelard——你不觉得波普这部作品的确像某些浪漫派作品一样强调激情吗？波普的“新古典主义”并不那么单纯，而浪漫派也不是凭空出现的。就算不提拜伦——Abrams在《镜与灯》里不也强调了十八世纪文学对华兹华斯的影响吗？

关于奥斯丁在浪漫派经典中的地位——可以说明你是在什么网上找到的奥斯丁介绍吗？你也是看过文论的人——引用他人观点最好还是有出处，至少让我知道这些观点体现了什么时代什么学者的看法？
我在网上找到两个大学的浪漫派课程书目，你可以参考一下。在“浪漫派时期的英国文学”这门课上包括了奥斯丁。而“英国浪漫派诗文”的书目里也同样包括了简奥斯丁。
http://www.wmich.edu/english/gradhandbook/rdglist/RomBrit.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/nh2/biblio.html
你说到奥斯丁的《诺桑绝罗寺》，但你的“浪漫主义”定义和拜伦讽刺的“浪漫主义”一样，都是新历史主义前的狭义“浪漫主义”，而不是目前学术界较流行的扩大后的广义浪漫主义。你既然也看过Jerome McGann，我也不好跟你再争什么——只不过想告诉你，在目前英美学术界，浪漫派经典不断扩大，奥斯丁被归为浪漫派作家的确已逐渐成为主流观点。
不过即使是狭义的浪漫主义——好像前一阵还有人写书评浪漫派诗人——特别是华兹华斯——对奥斯丁后三本小说的影响吧？

keatslover

恩 但是pope的詩歌基本沒有人會把它归为浪漫派的，因为它和真正的浪漫派并不一样，其实加拿大批评家弗莱发明个术语叫做poetry of sensiblity 感觉还是比较到位。至于奥斯丁 应该说没什么浪漫派的元素，她完全是因为自己所处的时期被称为浪漫主义时期的小说家。至于拜伦，我只能说他有浪漫派的一面，也有不是浪漫派的一面。感觉是不是浪漫派还是要看具体的风格和具体的作品分析，不能以时间来看。

keatslover

手头有本jerome mcgann 写的byron and romanticism 还在看之中

keatslover

科学哲学的进展对诗歌的影响在英国文学中是太普遍不过的事情，从chaucer 的诗歌里面就有，可以这么说英国诗人里面几乎没有不受影响的，所以拜伦那么写也丝毫不奇怪。我也引用爱默生的english traits 里面说明了英语民族有这样的倾向。然而在以感情，激情，新奇为主流的浪漫派时期，他们对待科学的处理不太一样，就像上面列出的诗歌所表现的，他们都是进行诗化处理的。华在几首诗歌里面曾经直接做过尝试，但是一直被认为失败。在美国是惠特曼将这个问题解决了。
其实我一直想说的就是科学和文学的关系在英国诗歌里面很密切，没什么值得奇怪的，再一个就是浪漫派对待科学入诗的态度不太一样。经常拉杂着讲就跑题了。

[ 本帖最后由 keatslover 于 2007-11-14 12:38 AM 编辑 ]

methos

原帖由 keatslover 于 2007-11-14 12:13 AM 发表
恩 但是pope的詩歌基本沒有人會把它归为浪漫派的，因为它和真正的浪漫派并不一样

当然，就像Tristram Shandy再“后现代”，也没人说Lawrence Sterne是后现代作家。但拜伦那会儿文学批评理论还没发展起来，我只想说他让人到“Eloisa to Abelard”里找浪漫主义并不奇怪。

其实加拿大批评家弗莱发明个术语叫做poetry of sensiblity 感觉还是比较到位。

Northrop Frye啊——你是不是比较倾向formalism？现在真的很少会有人把浪漫主义局限为诗歌了。

至于奥斯丁 应该说没什么浪漫派的元素

这个嘛，我已经说过了：
你既然也看过Jerome McGann，我也不好跟你再争什么——只不过想告诉你，在目前英美学术界，浪漫派经典不断扩大，奥斯丁被归为浪漫派作家的确已逐渐成为主流观点。

其实我一直想说的就是科学和文学的关系在英国诗歌里面很密切，没什么值得奇怪的，再一个就是浪漫派对待科学入诗的态度不太一样。经常拉杂着讲就跑题了。

我也很奇怪因为我也不曾说Felicia Hemans诗中涉及科学是什么值得奇怪的事……

[ 本帖最后由 methos 于 2007-11-14 06:40 AM 编辑 ]